What is up with this?? Christian bashing? Emergent/Seeker Sensitive dribble?What exactly was you purpose here?
This is meant to stimulate conversation and thinking. I'm sure you would at least have an opinion that would be worthy of sharing with us!
"I'm sure you would at least have an opinion that would be worthy of sharing with us!" Yes, actually, I do. And I hope that by using the word "conversation", you mean it in the usual sense, rather than in the Emergent, Contemplative (read: Transcendental meditation "for Christians") sense. Considering that the Emergent/ing hirelings have exchanged "conversation" for the true Gospel of the Bible, it's hard to tell nowdays.Also, since Bible-believing, true-to-the-Word Christians are now considered Ultra-Fundamentalist, judgemental bigots who refuse to just "get along with everyone", regardless of their doctrines of demons, the tag "Christian" is considered just too uncool.If you want to be relevant, hip and cool, you must identify yourself to the world as a "Christ Follower", so as not to be confused with the true Body of Christ, or, in other words, a Christian. After all, the WORLD doesn't like Christians!
JEN!!!! Oh My!!! This is sooo wonderful. I am driven crazy by all of the 'christian advertising' for 'christian supplies'. There are several 'christian office supply stores' in our area and I have often what a 'chistian' file folder or pen looks like. Your first commenter either has a lot of christian supplies....or is clueless and offended.
Anonymous, may I please encourage you to use any other name other than anonymous? Make up something creative, but I'd rather speak to someone who is not quite so anonymous!I am glad that you do have an opinion, but I don't think you've read much of my blog based upon your "comment." Either that, or you don't understand me at all.I consider myself a Berean, which means that I don't relate to most Christian "labels," since most of them don't line up with God's Word. However, just because I don't claim the same label as another Christian does not make judgmental of them, not in the least. I very much enjoy exchanging views and opinions with Christians of all denominational viewpoints and greatly desire that my blog is a safe place for any Christian to express their opinion and for anyone else to disagree with them in a charitable manner, like iron sharpening iron.Here's my question to you: Are you a Christian or a Christ Follower (according to the parody), and why? There is no right or wrong answer!I shall give my answer in a couple days.
When I identify myself as a christian, I also identify my school of thought or group I associate with. It comes out as "I am a christian associated with the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Our doctrinal school of thought is calvinistic."Your anonymous poster seems angry and sarcastic...let me explain the purpose...TO SHOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE WHO SPOUT AND MAKE A SHOW ABOUT BELIEVING AND THOSE WHO REALLY LIVE WHAT THEY BELIEVE....
"Your anonymous poster seems angry and sarcastic...let me explain the purpose...""TO SHOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE WHO SPOUT AND MAKE A SHOW ABOUT BELIEVING AND THOSE WHO REALLY LIVE WHAT THEY BELIEVE...." Hmm...Well, "mtg", you do have a knack for shutting down "conversation"! Angry? No. Concerned? Absolutely. And speaking of spouting, dear, please tell me in what way these videos could possibly "SHOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE WHO SPOUT AND MAKE A SHOW ABOUT BELIEVING AND THOSE WHO REALLY LIVE WHAT THEY BELIEVE...."?? Lea
Lea, click the button called "other" and then write your name in there.Lea, you say you are not angry, but you are concerned. Please tell us what exactly concerns you. You haven't addressed that yet.MTG, when you answer Lea's question, please don't use all caps, as that is considered shouting, and we really would like just a debate here, not shouting!
I had to laugh at those parodies! They really were a great reminder to us - are we focusing on our outward appearance to be the witness to the world (clothing, bumper stickers, pens, etc) or are we going to actually "live out" our faith? Often, we live like modern day Pharisees and rather than being a witness to the world, we focus on being "witnesses" to other Christians. I didn't agree with everything in the videos, but it really does make you stop and think "who am I living my life for"?
Jen,What concerns me is the growing apostasy within the Body of Christ. As I explained in my first post, the man-centered, watered-down doctrine that has been turned loose in the church is cause for great concern. Especially when we have Emergent Guru Brian McLaren preaching that there is no absolute truth, denies that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, and that there are many paths to God, among other things. And it is this Emergent/ing Church that is pushing its adherents to separate themselves from "Christians" (Old School) by calling themselves "Christ Followers" (Hip and Relevant to the World), as well as eschewing the Gospel of the Bible for a kinder, gentler "Conversation".I assumed that you were aware of these issues when I saw your earlier post regarding Ingrid at Slice (post is no longer here)and I knew you read her blog.It's hard to take these videos as harmless and all in good fun when one is painfully aware of what is happening in the Body of Christ, and the driving force behind the videos. I might be a bit touchy about the subject, I admit. This comes from watching people that I love being slowly led away from God's word to follow doctrines of demons because they have decided that "old" Christianity isn't intellectual enough for them, and that being relevant and of the world is more fun than the stodginess of obedience.On a lighter note, I honestly can't identify with either of the guys in the parody. I do wear a small, understated gold cross necklace, but other than that...I have always wondered what, exactly, qualified a gee-gaw or doo-dad as "Christian", and why on Earth anyone would buy them!As for the other guy: knowing what he represents, I don't identify with him, either.
Jen,Thanks for the humor! I enjoyed watching the videos and I definitely have an opinion. I will go out on a limb and say that NEITHER of these young men fairly represent a walk with Christ. At least not a walk that I recognize as genuine.PC-Christian is obviously preoccupied with outward appearances with his stickers and books and whatnot, and his character correctly pokes fun at those that would impose extra-Biblical parameters on others.Mac-Christian is incredibly arrogant in his interaction with PC-Christian...he is only imposing a different set of extra-Biblical parameters that happen to be more palatable to the world today. I would label Mac-Christian as wimpy, world-conscious, disrespectful and fad-driven.Follow me here...neither of these clowns can really tote their "faith" around very comfortably...even laptops are cumbersome and bulky.So, what we need is a third character...might I suggest a Blackberry-Christian? Think about Blackberries (the techno gadget) for a moment). The Blackberry-Christian would be a character that has no need to cart around his "faith" for all to see in the literal sense. The Blackberry-Christian simply lives a life that is enviable, and noticeably different to those who are chained to big, cumbersome things.Old St. Francis reminds me to "preach the gospel always and if necessary use words." That's a Blackberry-Christian! HA!Have a pleasant day,Jean
Jean and Lea,Jean, I enjoyed your Blackberry comments very much. However, since I am not particularly enamored with the Blackberry I must use and considering I'm an Apple Computer fan (now Apple Inc.), I will have to state that I prefer being an iPhone Christian – synchronized in my understanding that the Bible is the inerrant Word, my theology, my walk, my adherence to a Calvin-intended understanding of the 5 Solas, but definitely rejecting any form of syncretism (emergents, Roman Catholicism, Unitarian, etc.).Lea, I understand your concerns. Yet, I find my Bible tells me all of this will happen (the falling away and heresies). Furthermore, since the overarching majority of those who identify themselves as “Christians” are no more than “C and E” Christians (Christmas and Easter), I no longer fret over who is falling away because I know I serve a sovereign God. My duty is to obey Him in all things including loving my brothers and sisters (which includes lovingly confronting them when they sin), responding humbly to the same, loving my enemies, loving my children, loving my wife and, above all, loving God. I can do all these things because Christ strengthens me and because He expects all of us to be Bereans. Thus, our individual knowledge of the Holy Scripture is our first line of defense against aberrant theology.I say all of this not to minimize your concern, Lea, but to underscore the reality that many of our family members and friends will not be seen in the Kingdom of God. God makes it clear from the Pentateuch (Deuteronomy 24:16) that His sovereign call is to the individual and, though we are charged to help one another when we stumble, we are not charged to ensure another’s salvation. Yes, we are to confront heresy, but never at the expense of individual loving and righteous conduct.Okay, I’ll get off my soapbox.Have a blessed day, y’all.Mark
Sorry for shouting..was meant to draw attention to....I could not help thinking this am of how Jesus must have looked standing next to a phylactery decked out pharisee.....oh the visuals on that one!!!!
"...we are not charged to ensure another’s salvation."A scary thought, and a relief that Holy God doesn't leave even my own salvation in my shaky hands, let alone someone else's!Still, when apostasy strikes close to home, I do admit to wishing that I had the ability to grab someone by the collar and forcefully drag him or her back into the light. That, to my thinking, is an act of individual love! Although I know that all false teachers will one day fervently wish they had tied millstones around their necks and thrown themselves into the abyss rather than lead people astray, I must also admit that, when I (force myself to) pray for them, I must also force myself not to pray for God to call down the lightning!
Mark,From a fellow Mac- enthusiast (with her brand new, very own, don't have to share with the kids, MacBook Pro)...Kudos to your proclamation:"I no longer fret over who is falling away because I know I serve a sovereign God."I thank the Lord daily that He does not burden me with the salvation of self or others. I am saddened by the corruption of the visible church, of course, however I'm not in the least surprised. I've read The Book and I know how it ends!Come, Lord Jesus!Have a pleasant Mac-day,Jean
We can all point out many issues with both these characters. However what I take issue with is the fact that this is a propaganda piece for the emergent/seeker sensitive movement.Notice how carrying a bible is lumped in with all the uncool things Christian represents. How listening to worldly music*, making faces of disdain and dressing like the world* are things that a cool Christ follower does.*Note - I do not endorse CCM, nor do I think that owning a suit is necessary for salvation__________Jean, I would gently ask you for a command from the Word and not of man that we are to preach the gospel through actions first and that only if necessary use words. I have seen this used often as an excuse not to share the plain truth of the gospel, but to "love people into the kingdom" But God says: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Elizabeth,Whoops! You're reading way too much into my casual mention of St. Francis' familiar quote. Easy to do in this impersonal venue of cyberspace! Just to clarify, I cheerfully take my direction from the Word and not from men. To speak to your point (more clearly I hope!) I find that the New Testament in particular is chock full of exhortations to preach the gospel through actions and I have found this to be particularly convicting this past year. I preach the gospel (referring to spoken words here) daily to self, spouse and children, and anyone else the Holy Spirit directs. At all times, though, I want my actions and the simple ways I live my life to preach the gospel to those who are merely observing. Everywhere I go, I remind myself that I represent Christ, my family, my church, homeschoolers, etc. I do my level best to see that my actions speak in stereo with my words and The Word.I certainly can't love anyone into kingdom anymore than I can preach them into the kingdom...that's His work, in which I am happy and priviliged to be a part as He sees fit. I won't always get it just right, but then, He's still working on me!I know, clear as mud, right? HA!Have a pleasant day,Jean
Jean, I think you’re right about the miscommunication, and I agree whole-heartedly that the bible speaks to our behavior as Christians. After all, we are known to the world by our love of one another.I simply abhor the way I have always previously seen this quote used. Growing up I heard it often. It was used to suggest actions at the expense of the spoken or written word. It was used to silence Christians, remarkably most often by other professing Christians!With love in Christ, Elizabeth
"I no longer fret over who is falling away because I know I serve a sovereign God."I thank the Lord daily that He does not burden me with the salvation of self or others.I agree that we serve a Sovereign God, but I also want to remind us that we, in a small sense, should be burdedned with the salvation of others. Not that WE are the salvation, but we were commanded "as you GO into the world, making disciples of all men..." I think that should give us a burden for people, and I have seen too often the idea that it "isn't us who saves, but the calling of the Holy Spirit" to keep Christians silent. I have not created nor am I accountable for my salvation or anyone else's - that was done on the cross by Our Lord Jesus Christ, but I see too many of us (myself included) being lax in sharing of the Gospel. I see no example of just "living out their lives and being grateful that they weren't responsible for anyone's salvation" in the lives of the Apostles. They took every opportunity to share and witness as The Lord lead them. In the videos, neither man is really going to be doing that. One is wrapped up in looking like the "proper" Christian and accepting that is good enough, while the other is wrapped in looking like an "average" Joe and keeping his fingers crossed that it will draw someone to Christ. My husband says all the time, "We have to quit going to church and start BEING the church."
Jen,I wanted to stop by and thank you for the nice comments about my daughter's letter to Job on HSB.I found these parodies funny.I am a little confused about the comments. I have just recently started hearing the term "Christ Follower" instead of Christian, but I have not heard it from the followers of the Emergent Church. I have heard it from people that most would classify as very Conservative Christians. Their rationaele was that many people that call themselves Christians aren't really committed to following the Bible. Also, I liked your description of yourself as a Berean. I have said that I am transforming myself into a Berean through Bible study, I don't consider myself as having arrived.Blessings ~
I have always considered myself a Christian, by association with others who call themselves Christian, more than anything else. After all it is a term that has been rather universal for over 2000 years. By looking at those past 2000 years we can easily see that the term "Christian" carries with it a lot of baggage, of which most of us would like to disassociate ourselves with. By inventing a new label, something a little more vogue for the young Emergent crowd, something that has more appeal for the marketing people, we are not let off the hook of our hypocrisy. We do not erase 2000 years of costume changes by going to the dressing room one more time. I think that we would all agree that it is not what we call ourselves that really matters, but what we do, according to what we know, that counts. We are the salt of the Earth and if we have lost our saltiness (the label of “salt” does not apply anymore) does it matter that we hide the fact by calling ourselves something else e.g. salt substitute. At least with the new label of “Christ Follower” we are at least driven, hopefully, to identify what Christ was really like, and by the only document that we have that gives us that information, I can conclude that neither Christians or Christ Followers, at least the ones I have seen, deserve or warrant the use of the names. If we read the red letters of the afore mentioned document we will see that the numbers of people who call themselves “Christian” or “Christ Followers” are very few in number. One other thing we will notice is that what we are witnessing is not uncharacteristic of end day activities. After all, isn’t it true that Satan is the deceiver of the whole world, the deceiver of nations, and will destroy men through intrigue. As for me and my family, we have decided to follow the Lord. We have pulled out from all the vast institutionalism and organization and have banded together with a small group of others who are reading and trying to apply a very free format of simple trust and obedience, and it seems to be working nicely. If we will love the Light, instead of the labels, it is a very good beginning.
You can see my thoughts on those videos at my blog or my video response on Godtube. http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=8ab3e32caeaaecf43355God bless,Doug
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